what joe biden can do is joe biden can talk and put a human face on issues. it doesn't sound like a washington think tank or a policy conference of white papers. joe biden talks like he just came from talking to people whether it's in a church haul or in a community centre. and that is a-- that's a great gift, something the democrats need desperately. >> and it was a deficit of paul ryan as one of us said last night, that when he was asked about character, when ryan was, he talked about policy. and so it was-- it was a much more earthy-- . >> woodruff: and the vice president called him on that. very authentic guy talkinged about his past, his family all the time. >> woodruff: so as we wrap up here, where does the race stand now and what does the president and what does governor romney need to do next tuesday? >> well, i think it's basically a tie. i think if you look at nationally romney is up one. if you look at the swing states obama is up one. obama still has an advantage in ohio and some those other states but it's extremely close. and so to me what romne